News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. Thats why places like TWW are imperative. . If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. Please fill me in Numo. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. Love, I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? ATB he sees God. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. the money that was supposed to be going to missionaries in another country had been intertwined with the general fund. Im not as strong or wise as Lydia, but I hope to provide valuable insights based on my experience so that those with eyes to see and ears to hear get out and get out quickly.
James River Church - Leadership not always what they portray I just do not understand this focus on hoping Christians leaders will actually and finally act like Christians when everything they have been involved with and built looks nothing like Jesus Christ. It really bothers me that he seems to profane things still. . Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. I didnt feel pressured. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. If you take his quotes about his economic policies in Cuba and substitute covenant or biblical Gospel he sounds about the same as the pastors we are discussing. some things i noticed are in (parenthesis) @ sam: News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. That does not even mention the eradication of those who did not agree and his cognitive dissonance concerning Hiroshima and working to bring USSR Nuclear missles in Cuba claiming it would be good to use them on Imperialist American. I try to make sure my examples reflect current GW practice which is repellent to follow but important that people understand the stuff that I am posting is happening in real time. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. They stay in and around the very thing that ruined them in the first place. Only the hero. full of manly manness and praise of human strength and wisdom and all the attributes mark has himself.
Working at James River Church: 40 Reviews - Indeed He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. Its kind of like that movie Winters Bone where the communities are closed to a fault. Why should we bother with reading history or learning the truth? Hosted at every James River Church campus.
Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. . Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. The church has spawned countless church plants, charities and conferences. Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. saul walks onto the stage of history. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. How do you see this as someone looking in? In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed . What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? People who are not religious, like me, are generally skeptical of religious institutions and their goals. But. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. We live in a youtube world where fun and funny trump all. when mercy ministries was investigated at hillsong amazingly the leader Nancy Acorn opened up shop in the u.s. and has many supporters among the christian circuit However, we also see that David and Samuel were permitted to speak out publicly against Saul in truth. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. He is not going to go run to a car dealership the minute he gets out of jail. @ Abi Miah: Humility? They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. Ive seen desensitizing have the desired effect and its not pretty. I knew I was being set up when I watched MDs embedded church video posted here at TWW. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. His most shocking was when just before he stepped down from the pulpit and was in the midst of many scandals, he did a sermon on the many mistakes of Jesus. starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. He is a draw. I simply offer another perspective. I felt physically ill when I saw them. I had never heard someone talk like that. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) (glorifies paul. I believe in forgiveness, but cautious about putting such folks back on the platform. Ill be honest I dont see Christ in it. Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. But I never want to deliberately post any false information so I do appreciate any corrections you can add. Prayer Requests They have a very different take on the fulfillment of prophecy that you may enjoy learning as a contrast with your own beliefs. Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist.
Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Church I dont think theres been any repentance at all. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. The prophets in that verse are likewise OT prophets and also refers only to physical harm. Who cares about that pesky truth so long as there are clean bathrooms, great hot coffee and rockin worship? It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. Its a measure of arrogance, tweeted retired attorney and flight instructor Jeanne Mann on Sunday with a photo from the gathering. It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. And how many know you cant not everything you read on the internet is true, and so as a church I just I just know this, as a church we want to be careful that we dont ever put ourself in a situation where were shooting the wounded, and you know God has laid Mark and Grace upon Debbie and my heart repeatedly over the last several months. As some are aware, the result of me pleading for a fair trial and arguing for due deliberation when changing bylaws was that Mark Driscoll, in an abusive and vile manner, threatened to destroy me and my ministry. Barnabus is described as a good man and full of the Holy Spirit. You cant speak in tongues? I am not surprised he is mobilizing his church, which packs a powerful political punch through the sheer number of members and, I believe, their commitment to vote. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. But Peter rebuked him for his motives and told him to repent of his wickedness and told him he was gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.. I hope I am wrong. Here is the gist of Driscolls message: its all about me and Im a martyr for the faith!, Same old Driscoll, full of male bovine meadow muffins. It is often just a wise thing to do if one is familiar with those types. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). He screamed and swore. ), Warren Throckmorton quickly put up a post on this development and featured the following video. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. Years ago, he spoke from the pulpit against the expansion of casino gambling in Missouri. mode. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. his heart is revealed by the countenance of his face. (I guess angles smile a lot) I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. And every Wednesay at 7pm! He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. starts with: I have heard Marks message several times now and have some concerns. pastors that use their position to wreck peoples lives arent expected to go to jail or show tears publicly and thats ok if its not warranted but it is very reasonable for people to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them to go back to influencing the lives of people. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. There are plenty of people within the Christian faith that have their own issues with mega churches but people outside of it especially do. Unless he completely revamps his life and his teachings, hes going to leave damaged lives in his wake. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. I know people who were previously baptized that jumped in to get the swag. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Its all good until (insert question or issue). But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. The world has a lot higher standards and integrity than the whole xtian celebrity machine put together, and the internet helps everyone to see that. I told him that. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. Pastor John Lindell mentioned that Mark and Grace founded Mars Hill Church eighteen years ago. The kid starts expecting it. The question is not, Can he be forgiven? but rather Should he be trusted in a position of power over peoples lives? I would guess that many of the people who have been directly harmed by him have forgiven him. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. (WARNING: Includes graphic language), American news sources didn't waste much time alerting their readers of this development. We will definitely check it out. Here is Stephen facing public opposition. It probably did. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. The disciples send him off to Tarsus and after that-there was peace for a time in the churches in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.:o). appeciate your posts and the others on this blog, i remember that, thanks Van, for the reminder. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? Unfortunately, during this difficult season, the focus has been taken off of Jesus and put on me, and that is not what The ROC is all about., http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_8c6b7719-c4af-523b-b3a6-3c6131e32fd3.html. The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. http://www.mercyministries.org/, though she scrubbed some posts referring to her involvement when it was hillsong ministries mercy ministries there are still a few unscrubs left here and there. If you become used to a certain standard of living, that does not mean you are entitled to that standard of living. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. However, you are on to something with the radical chic concept. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. i want to again put a human face on what Mark Driscoll and others in Acts 29 insist on keeping free of anything but CEO Business speak and mistakes that were made. There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. I also dont think he should work or earn profit in any manner making money off Jesus (such as selling Christian books, pod casts, site subscriptions, accepting speaking fees to appear at churches, etc). he smiles and there is love in his heart. (stephen the shepherd? Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. Hosting a giant event without distancing or masking is irresponsible and insulting to the people on the front lines of this crisis, most especially the health care workers who are overwhelmed. Ans. Of course BHouston can know about MDs statements in the past 5 minutes of Googling will turn up Wenatchee The Hatchets meticulous documentation, screenshots and all, and Warren Throckmortons extensive documentation, the mp3 of the infamous sermon in Scotland, etc pp. How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. At a certain level they wanted leaderless teams who would function by consensus. But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. Guess well see. First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. And probably they wont. We are believing this 5-day event will change your life! Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. Yep. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility Thats certainly how Driscoll has handled things. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. Having heard MDs messages for several years now, I believe he is trying to lead people into thinking its about him. Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses kudos to the hosts of the aussie tv show that made brian huston look at the absolute facts and rediculousness of his supporting (and paying for) an american mega pastor who is well known in christian circuits I use the term rediculous because I dont want to be mean or judgmental, but I believe that brian was all for helping mark get back in the saddle until it cost him some publicity. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. I had never heard someone talk like that. I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. I'm in on that. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. This is not a measure of faith. The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. Thanks for sharing your perspectives Abi Mia and Nancy, I appreciate that. . As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. . I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. Missouri church service Saturday evening. Something has gone seriously wrong in Mega-Land and it aint just thinking about having MD speak at one of their conferences. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Like God might show up. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. . Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21 There is a distinct period of time that must pass before you can really objectively address the damage that that place does. They really believe that God has anointed the leaders to lead them. It is an issue of protecting other people. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. Last week GW was desperately trying to give away as many copies as possible of some book COO Tom Lane wrote called Letters From a Dad to a Graduate. Let me look it up. That would be terrible. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. . they had a scandal about their homes for helping young women also, financial corruption-ish and not letting the women get outside counseling. He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. I do hope he finds wholeness. I am haunted by that infamous message where he appeared to use a Bible passage to describe what was about to happen to two Mars Hill elders. I believe they were simply behaving as their normal selves. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they haven't asked for forgiveness? think of him as he is pray to glorified jesusking of kings lord of lords worshiped by angels. stephen says Ive gotta find jesus on the worst most devasting difficult damaging day of my life I have to find jesus (more mark interpreting the bible for all of us non pastors, stephen already knew where Jesus was) and he sees jesus, what is jesus doing?